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<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word; line-break:after-white-space">Hello again Saed,
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<div class="">I have now had the time to take a closer look at your instrument file - which to first order looks OK, but raises a few of questions:</div>
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<div class="">1) You write in a previous email that </div>
<div class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>"<span class="" style="font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; font-size:10pt; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> </span><span class="" style="font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; font-size:10pt; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">although
I get almost exact matching result at monochromator position.</span><span class="" style="font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; font-size:10pt; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> </span><font face="굴림, Gulim, Helvetica, serif" size="2" class="">“</font></div>
<div class=""><span class="" style="font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; font-size:10pt; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>- which I take to be the number indicated in your instrument file, i.e. </span></div>
<div class=""><span class="" style="font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; font-size:10pt; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>"</span><font face="굴림, Gulim, Helvetica, serif" size="2" class="">The
Real (measured) flux at monochromator is 2.7e8 (n/cm2.s).” - correct?</font></div>
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<div class=""><font face="굴림, Gulim, Helvetica, serif" size="2" class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>Now, your instrument as it comes has a double definition of wavelength produced from the source, where the “narrow” one </font></div>
<div class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; font-size:small; white-space:pre"></span><font face="굴림, Gulim, Helvetica, serif" size="2" class="">lambda0 = Lambda, dlambda = 0.01*Lambda will take preference over the “wide”
one between Wlmin=0.1 and Wlmax=10.</font></div>
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<div class=""><font face="굴림, Gulim, Helvetica, serif" size="2" class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>I have now defined an input parameter (Narrow = 0/1) that allows to switch between the “full range” and “narrow range” setting.</font></div>
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<div class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>So I assume I should run with the wide interval to reproduce your “almost exact result”? </div>
<div class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>(Otherwise I only get Before_Mono_I=3.39633e+06) </div>
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<div class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>With the wide interval I instead get: Before_Mono_I=2.54145e+08 </div>
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<div class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>Using the Monitor_nD feature “capture” I actually get a little less, namely 2.17419e+08 - this indicates to me that perhaps your source </div>
<div class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>intensity I=1.28e14 should be increased ever so slightly.</div>
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<div class="">2) I think of lattice spacings as material constants, I have therefore defined a GeMode =0 /1 to switch between Ge 331 and 511. The wavelength is then calculated</div>
<div class=""> <span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>from DM and Theta_M.</div>
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<div class="">3) Your monitor Before_Mono_I overlaps with the Monochromator component, and should therefore apply the restore_neutron=1 flag. </div>
<div class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>(Otherwise only the second half of your Monochromator will be illuminated, due to a propagation/shadowing effect: A monitor propagates to its geometrical plane).</div>
<div class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>- This brings a factor of 2 to all mono settings!</div>
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<div class="">4) You have added a phenomenological size-change of your mono-sample collimator. I would correct this way, but rather adjust e.g. the RV of the monochromator slightly.</div>
<div class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>Optimising with a scan I found that RV=2.6 brings a slightly more focussed beam/smaller footprint.</div>
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<div class="">5) With reference to both mosaicity, it is well known that these vary quite a lot over a batch of (wafer-stacked, deformed) Ge monochromator slabs. Do you have access to </div>
<div class=""> measurement data for all / some of the actual mounted crystals? Who was the original manufacturer or the monochromator?</div>
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<div class="">6) I agree with Erik Iverson that 0.3 seems a little low - and it should certainly vary between the two reflections… Are there measurement data available from the actual, </div>
<div class=""> mounted mono slabs?</div>
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<div class="">7) For which reflection / Bragg angle do you measure the quoted value of 1.3e6 n/cm.s at the instrument? </div>
<div class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>And what was the used collimator setting? </div>
<div class=""><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>Was a Be filter or equivalent in place or were multiple orders in fact measured simultaneously?</div>
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<div class="">Adjusting the reflectivity up by a factor of 2 and taking out your collimator (COLL_MOUNTED=0) brings the measured capture flux at the sample position closer to your</div>
<div class="">experimental value, I get:</div>
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<div class="">Ge 331 @ 45 degrees: 8.5e5 with collimator, 1.4e6 without collimator</div>
<div class="">Ge 331 @ 59 degrees: 2.7e5 with collimator, 4.3e5 without collimator</div>
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<div class=""><b class="">Ge 511 @ 45 degrees: 1.0e6 with collimator, 2.0e6 without collimator</b></div>
<div class="">Ge 511 @ 59 degrees: 3.5e5 with collimator, 5.6e5 without collimator</div>
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<div class="">And If I allow multiples (order=0) in the Ge 511 @ 45 degrees setting with collimator I get 1.1e6?</div>
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<div class="">Bringing up the mosaicity another 10’ also seems to help.</div>
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<div class="">The next steps require digging into experimental reports I don’t have access to, that work is for you. :-) Or maybe one could even repeat a couple of the measurements under known conditions? Varying some of the same parameters that I vary above
in simulation?</div>
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<div class="">Getting “complete” agreement is hard work, but it can be done. Requires both experimental and modelling-oriented considerations.</div>
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<div class="">Best and hope this helps you further in your hunt for discrepancies, </div>
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<div class="">Peter Willendrup</div>
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<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 17 May 2018, at 08:08 , 새드하셈 <<a href="mailto:saed@kaeri.re.kr" class="">saed@kaeri.re.kr</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<p class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
Dear Dr. Peter<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
<div class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
<br class="x_webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
I have sent you the source code of HANARO-HRPD as you requested before, so could you check it please to discover the problem in the difference between real measured flux (n/cm2.s) and the McStas flux at sample position<br class="">
</p>
<p class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
Thank you in advance</p>
<div class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
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</div>
<p class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
Best Regards,</p>
<p class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
Saed Almomani</p>
<p class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
Nuclear Engineer, HANARO</p>
<p class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
Research Assistant, Neutron Science Center </p>
<br class="">
<div id="x_uSign" class=""> </div>
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<img src="http://mail.kaeri.re.kr/skina2/img/kaeri_footer_hybrid.jpg" class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
-----Original Message-----<br class="">
<blockquote dir="ltr" class="" style="padding-left:5px; margin-left:5px; border-left-width:2px; border-left-style:solid; border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0); padding-right:0px; margin-right:0px">
<b class="">보낸사람(From) :</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Peter Kjær Willendrup <<a href="mailto:pkwi@fysik.dtu.dk" class="">pkwi@fysik.dtu.dk</a>><br class="">
<b class="">받는사람(To) :</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>새드하셈 <<a href="mailto:saed@kaeri.re.kr" class="">saed@kaeri.re.kr</a>><br class="">
<b class="">참조(Cc) :</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mcstas-users@mcstas.org" class="">mcstas-users@mcstas.org</a><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:mcstas-users@mcstas.org" class="">mcstas-users@mcstas.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">보낸일자(Sent) :</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>2018-05-09 22:56:02<br class="">
<b class="">메일제목(Subject) :</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [mcstas-users] Reflectivity and transmission files of Ge crystal<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Dear Saed,<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 9 May 2018, at 11:30 , 새드하셈 <<a href="mailto:saed@kaeri.re.kr" class="">saed@kaeri.re.kr</a>> wrote:</div>
<div class="">
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<p class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt">Actually I have one question and one inquiry:</span></p>
<p class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
<strong class="">Q:<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></strong>I'm trying to simulate the HANARO_HRPD by using McStas software. <strong class="">But after I inserted all required components and their parameters as designed/as they are on ground
now</strong>, I found a kind of<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong class="">difference</strong><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>between the McStas_flux magnitude and the Real_flux magnitude both at sample position in (n/cm2.s)
!! and the difference is high enough to say there is something wrong I can't figure it ! {Real_flux is around (1.3e6) n/cm2.s where McStas_flux is (1.9e5) n/cm2.s.} although I get almost exact matching result at monochromator position.<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
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</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It is always easier to comment or correct if there is acces to the instrument file, as well as other necessary data.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I would therefor encourage you to send the instrument file, plus descriptive material about your beamline in response to this email.</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="font-size:12px; text-decoration:none; font-family:Helvetica; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-transform:none; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; letter-spacing:normal; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); text-indent:0px">
<p class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
And my concerns also increased when some experts (2 experts to be honest) told me that McStas doesn't show the flux magnitude as calculated or expected !! So is this True ?! and if yes, what is the accepted difference between McStas and Real, i.e. the criteria
or error margin to consider?</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
I my experience McStas is reasonably reliable, and to a large extent simulates exactly what one parametrises. This of course means that if the source emission or certain material- or geometrical data are put in with values that are off, the simulation will
naturally also be off. :-)</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">A rule of thumb is that with modest effort, one can arrive within 10% of what one would measure. Better agreement than that typically requires lots of more thinking, coding, simulating and benchmarking.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">But again, without access to what you are trying to simulate and how, it is hard to judge what is going on. We are "flying blind".<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="font-size:12px; text-decoration:none; font-family:Helvetica; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-transform:none; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; letter-spacing:normal; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); text-indent:0px">
<p class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
<strong class="">Inquiry:</strong><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>I tried to get the Reflectivity files of Ge crystal to define a curved Monochromator with four wavelengths (1.54, 1.834, 1.866, 2.224 A), but unfortunately I couldn't find any
source that provide a tabulated data of the wavelength and the absolute Ge crystal reflectivity. So is there anyone who could help me in this also?<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I must admit I am not much of a monochromator-expert, but I would try looking among papers by Freund et. al from the 1970’s and 80’s.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best regards,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Peter Willendrup</div>
<br class="">
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<div class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; margin:0cm 0cm 0pt">
<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:8pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Technical University of Denmark</span></b></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:8pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Department o</span><span class="" style="font-size:8pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">f</span><span class="" style="font-size:8pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> Physics</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:8pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Fysikvej</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:8pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Building 307</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:8pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif">DK-2800 Kongens Lyngby</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:8pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Direct +45 2125 4612</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:8pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Mobil +45 2125 4612</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:8pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Fax +45 4593 2399</span></div>
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</span><span class="x_Apple-style-span" style="font-size:12px; font-family:Helvetica; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; border-collapse:separate; text-transform:none; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; border-spacing:0px; orphans:2; widows:2; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-indent:0px"><span class="x_Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Helvetica; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; border-collapse:separate; text-transform:none; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; border-spacing:0px; orphans:2; widows:2; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-indent:0px"><span class="x_Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Helvetica; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; border-collapse:separate; text-transform:none; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; border-spacing:0px; orphans:2; widows:2; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-indent:0px"><span class="x_Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Helvetica; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; border-collapse:separate; text-transform:none; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; border-spacing:0px; orphans:2; widows:2; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-indent:0px"><span class="x_Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Helvetica; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; border-collapse:separate; text-transform:none; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; border-spacing:0px; orphans:2; widows:2; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-indent:0px"><span class="x_Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:collapse"><a href="mailto:pkwi@fysik.dtu.dk" class="">pkwi@fysik.dtu.dk</a></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div>
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<p class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:굴림,Gulim,Helvetica,serif; margin-top:7px; margin-bottom:0px">
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<img src="http://mail.kaeri.re.kr/jxmail/ko/jsp/mail/readCheck.jsp?read=saed_send_mime_1526537297631_Thread-475_0" border="0" height="1" width="1" class=""><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><span id="x_cid:39F5CA33-89F5-4819-A863-DA340C0ED6AA"><HANARO_TEST.instr></span></p>
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